Japanese government wants to burn heavily contaminated radioactive debris, which are over 200 Bq per kilogramme
If they were burnt, 33 times concentration of radiation from the original occurs
Moving to the west by jet stream, they finally reach West Coast, USA and must be start contaminating there badly
We need your say!
USA, Canada as well as eastend of Siberia, west Alaska are already contaminated heavily as below.
Unless we take measures now, whole part of northern hemisphere are at great risk.
This is not a SF.. but a real threat to humans
A Bequerel is one radioactive decay per second. 200 Bq/kg sounds like a lot, but it isn't; some granites have over 1500 Bq/kg of potassium-40 alone.
ReplyDeleteIf the wind is blowing to the east, this stuff will fall into the Pacific; for all intents and purposes, it will vanish. Cs-137 and Sr-90 have half-lives of about 30 years and will disappear all by themselves.
This appears to be nothing to worry about. I would be more concerned about conventional air pollution from the burning.
if they were burnt, radiation will be 33 times concentrated in ashes and caesium will be evapolated in around 670 Celsius and we humans breathe them
ReplyDeleteas a matter of fact, US west coast is contaminated. some might fall into the ocean but others reach the US soil nonetheless
That's good. It reduces the disposal problem by 97%, and makes the material inert. All you'd have to do is sink the ash in the deep ocean and all the radioactives would decay before the water returns to the surface.
ReplyDeletecaesium will be evapolated in around 670 CelsiusI'm assuming that the incinerators will have scrubbers, so most of it will be captured.
we humans breathe themThat depends on the winds. If it's carried to the east, it'll mostly fall into the ocean.
US west coast is contaminatedTo a trivial extent. We only know this becauseCs-137 does not occur naturallyCs-137's decay energy is uniqueThis allows extraordinarily small amounts to be detected.I'd worry more about chemical contaminants from spilled oil and things. The US Coast Guard just sank a derelict Japanese ship that was washed out of a ship-breaking yard and drifted all the way to Alaska. There were concerns of fuel on board; how much more is out there, in packages too small to make the news?
Trivial amounts of radioactives are nothing compared to the normal background. Worrying about them is a waste of time and a distraction from real hazards.
Our land is tiny yet densely populated..that's good if it were stored securely in a safest place, but few believes the burnt ashes will be stored securely and separately from humans for nearly 30 years
ReplyDeleteJapanese made 54 nuclear power reactor but don't know how to discard the reactor after its use, so although all must have been abandoned in ten years some keep on being used for more than 25 years..
I mean they Japanese lack vision
I don't think they can deal with well such a very sensitive material as heavily radioactive waste
In a sense we can say they were waiting for a natural disaster to stop the operation of reactor economically.
USA is far away from here so the damage must be much less than that in East Japan, but here in West Japan we have to defend ourselves because Fukushima is just next to us.
Fukushima already emitted 168 times more radiation than the atomic bomb exploded in Hiroshima and 5 times more than that in Chernobyl nuclear disaster and still radiation leakage never stops
Despite the disaster, I still don't understand Japan's efforts to ditch nuclear power. It is still massively efficient. Why not move to the liquid thorium reactor plan that will solve many of these issues highlighted by the Fukushima disaster?
ReplyDeleteNow all 54 reactors are temporarily out of service while stress test is on, our progress in society and scientific academy is now stampede
ReplyDeleteAll our nationals especially eastern people are suffered from more or less radiation
People can't think logical matters properly once their brains are affected by radiation
We call it radioactive brains
I found a news item which mentioned that Japan's oil imports had jumped by about 113,000 barrels per day to feed thermal powerplants (I'm sure it's greater now). That would cost about $11 million per day ($4 billion per year), plus extra imports of coal and LNG and the cost and discomfort of conservation measures.
ReplyDeleteNext Big Future had a post recently about a couple of plants which had passed their checkouts and were ready for restart, waiting only for approval of the prefecture. If the plants are not owned by TEPCO, I'm not sure why they haven't been given the go-ahead yet; it appears that all of them are being made to pay for TEPCO's sins, and Japan as a whole.
Radiation, or stress hormones from all the stuff on the news and the hardships needed to save electricity... or the way electricity has to be generated when nuclear power isn't available?
ReplyDeleteIt's estimated that several hundred people died as a result of the Three Mile Island meltdown. Radiation didn't hurt anybody. What hurt them was all the additional coal that was burned, leading to worse air pollution.
Japan is burning a lot more fossil fuel and spending a lot of money to get it. That has to hurt.
I'm glad that you're still around, Eiko.
ReplyDeleteI understand that whatever the risks on the ground, this failure has had a psychological impact on the Japanese population, and I can understand that nuclear failures would be exceptionally distressing to the Japanese.
If engineerpoet is right, at least you shouldn't have too many physical problems to deal with, but I am very sympathetic to the distress that must be felt after the Fukushima disaster. It must be difficult to keep a level head.
I hope that you're going strong, and that life is treating you well.
My best,
Tim.
In the case of Fukushima, radiation hurt anyone who is vulnerable to radiation which counts about 10 per cent of all population. Women, elderly and infants are affected more severely. On the other hand 11 per cent are believed to have resistance on radiation, so effect of radiation varies up to individuals.
ReplyDeleteWe believe radiation caused by this disaster is 168 times more than Hiroshima and 5 times more than Chernobyl so now many people start having various health problems.
We will encounter severe diseases as heart attack, stroke, leukemia, and cancer in the coming years.
Yes in the 1960s, there were several areas whose air is very contaminated. But because of the effort we had made the problem of air pollution has been greatly reduced by multiple filtration, etc.
Hi, Tim...
ReplyDeleteJust take a close look at this map!
About one- third of whole Japan is severely contaminated by very strong radiation.
A couple of days ago in Tokyo 50 people found dead in bed in the morning on the same day..
Drinking water in Tokyo often counts 2 or 3 Bq per litre.
I think the fall of our society is just a matter of time.
Can you provide a reference in English for this? As I've mentioned elsewhere, people Ramsar in Iran get an AVERAGE of 260 mSv/year and don't have obvious ill effects. Also, most effects of low-dose radiation (such as cancer) are delayed by years; it is simply impossible for them to have appeared already. Stress hormones, buildings too cold or too hot, and other non-radiation side effects would take effect immediately.
ReplyDeleteI don't know any Japanese, but I'll refer you to the English definition of parsimony, which is a virtue in scientific explanations. The "radiation did it" claim is not parsimonious.
Stay sane and safe. I expect that there will be a statistically significant, but small increase in the number of deaths, birth mutations, and such like. But it will be a small fraction of the population. A mother whose baby is mutated will think otherwise, but I expect that life will go on much as before for most people.
ReplyDeleteThat said, the nuclear meltdowns are a distressing thing to happen in any culture, and there is always likely to be that feeling of being punished for 'playing God' by manipulating fundamental forces of nature.
There's no valid hyperlink or URL there.
ReplyDeleteI tried to find a map last night, but I didn't come up with anything more recent than last June or so. If you have a good one (and a translation of any Japanese on it), I'd love to see it.
Note that a bequerel is one decay per second. It is a VERY small amount of radioactivity.
ReplyDeleteThe radioactivity from natural uranium in seawater is 33 mBq/liter. 14C is another 5 mBq/liter; I'm assuming that's largely due to dissolved carbonate and bicarbonate ions.
You're concerned about 3 Bq/l, but Germany had milk measuring 20 kBq/l after Chernobyl. There would have been rises in drinking water too.
Germany did not have the sort of health issues you're claiming here, despite what appears to have been much worse contamination. This suggests that any problem actually has some other cause.
Radiation could be a convenient distraction from something else that's going on. Have you ever considered that? Remember, TEPCO managed to deny that there was anything deficient about their designs or practices. Who else could be doing that today? Something to think about.
Radiation is worrisome because it's invisible and you can't do anything about it. However, if people are blaming harmless levels of radiation for problems caused by a real health threat, you're harming yourself twice: you're stressing out over the radiation, and not protecting yourself from the real problem.
I'm thinking about the bubonic plague and Yellow Fever. People didn't understand that they were transmitted by flea and mosquito bites, so they failed to do things that could have protected them. This could be another example.
The first thing is to de-stress. Stress will kill you even if nothing else is wrong.
There are various kinds of radiation such as alpha, beta and gamma. There are hundreds of nucleus particles as caesium, iodine, plutonium, etc.. its not necessarily for anyone who are exposed by such a high level of natural radiation to have a health problem.
ReplyDeleteThe "radiation did it" claim is not parsimonious.
I'd rather say that a part of cause owes to radiation, which is indeed 'parsimonious'
Can you provide a reference in English for this?
The influence of radiation varies to each individuals, 11% is very sensitive while 10 % shows strong resistance.
This is an ordinary range of our common sense not only for radiation but for anything.
In any matters this statement is just saying that some are very sensitive while the others are not so.
In most cases radiation makes any matters, let alone any diseases just worse, it's not necessarily the 'main' cause of the disease, which is obviously 'not parsimonious'
Infant thyroid cancer was very rare. 10 cases were reported annually in the past. But now in Fukushima where major disaster occurred, 1000 cases are reported as something bad in their thyroid.
ReplyDelete>for 'playing God' by manipulating fundamental forces of nature.
Exactly.
Life never started when radiation level was still very high on the earth, and life appeared when radiation level significantly lowered.
Appearance of life was a result of struggle against radiation, yet people right now claim to find 'the third fire' , though they don't know that it shall deny the existence of themselves in the near future.
When life started on Earth, it was under intense bombardment by solar ultraviolet light; there was no ozone layer.
ReplyDeleteSomebody needs to learn about Dienococcus radiodurans.
Life here in a sense advanced intelligent beings never started under thick radiation level.
ReplyDeleteAs to what you mentioned you are right.
You think so? Not only have you not shown that the illnesses are those known to be caused by radiation exposure (such as anemia), you've not shown that the doses are adequate to produce such illness AND you're backing away from the claim that radiation is the cause to "part of the cause".
ReplyDeleteYou didn't provide a reference either. I want a scientific source for the claim you're making.
I've got an explanation for you:Japan has been bombarded with hype about radiation dangers, combined with population displacement and conservation measures plus higher costs for imported energy.These have caused stress in major parts of the population.Stress is known to cause illness, and even death; it took the Japanese to have enough people dropping dead on the job to need a single word (karoshi) to describe it.Stress is a parsimonious explanation for the amount and variety of the observed health problems.
The solution is simple: realize that nuclear power isn't the monster some people want it to be, stop worrying about it, and re-start the 30 or so reactors that are ready to return to service to address the other problems.
Those problems are about to get worse:In a recent survey, 71% of manufacturers said power shortages could force them to cut production, while 96% said that the additional spectre of higher electricity bills would hit earnings. The Japan Institute for Energy Economics has warned that keeping nuclear reactors mothballed could limit GDP growth to just 0.1% this year, as manufacturers cut back production while paying higher prices for crude.People worrying about their jobs are not going to find it easy to stay healthy. Trivial amounts of radiation are not the real problem, stress is.
That is actually the only observed public health impact from Chernobyl as well, caused by iodine-131. But I-131 disappears within months, and can be kept from causing harm by taking potassium iodide pills.
ReplyDeleteCould thyroid nodules have been caused by iodine overdose? Here is a list of effects I found, though I'm having trouble relating this to illnesses. There is a form of goiter caused by excessive iodine. Maybe the problem isn't the radiation, but the protection.
I'm still waiting for a link to that map you said you had.
ReplyDeleteWhat I see are a whole lot of claims, but no information to support them.
http://radioactivity.mext.go.jp/old/ja/monitoring_by_prefecture_fallout/
ReplyDeleteThis site provides monitoring of fallout
Japanese government made a contamination map caused by the nuclear explosion after earthquake in Fukushima, but making a map up to date is simply put..very hard.
I believe major fallout occurred around 15th and 21st of March, 2011 and large part of east japan was contaminated by thick radioactive plume ..but since then still significant dosage of radiation leakage continues, besides radioactive debris are burnt in many areas of east japan, total amount of radiation keeps on rising.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articlePictures/fukushima_radiation_nuclear_fallout_map.jpg
http://r3zn8d.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/fukushima_estimated_oceanic_cesium_deposits.jpg
Thanks to Google Translate, I managed to get to recent measurements for Tokyo. They're about a month old.
ReplyDeleteRadiation levels are 0.496 μSv/hr, or around 4 mSv/yr. This is well within the average range for Earth.
Measurements of I-131, Cs-134 and Cs-137 in tapwater are at "undetectable" levels.
Worst reported becquerel is 187,000 Bq /kilogramme from freshwater fish in Iidata, near distracting Fukushima nuclear power plant and almost all milk shows 20 -30 Bq per litre
ReplyDeletehttp://www.maff.go.jp/noutiku_eikyo/mhlw3.html
http://atmc.jp/food/ -they say this site is down now because of maintenance
This site is very comprehensive issued by government..just take a close look at how much becquerel they found.
However, if people are blaming harmless levels of radiation for problems caused by a real health threat, you're harming yourself twice: you're stressing out over the radiation, and not protecting yourself from the real problem.
I think real health threat is exacerbated by harmless levels of radiation, which never disappear but accumulate themselves and become harmful level of radiation.
In order to protect ourselves from the real problem we need to get rid of radiation as much as possible.
>transmitted by flea and mosquito bites
I might be able to say radiation is a latter-day flea
There's no indication that that's desirable, even if it was possible.
ReplyDeletealmost all milk shows 20 -30 Bq per litreThis is about 1/1000 of the levels seen in Germany after Chernobyl. The FDA's level of concern is 170 Bq/kg; you're at 1/5 to 1/8 of that.
The biological half-life of strontium is about 14 days, unless it's incorporated into bone. The solution is probably to feed extra calcium to the cows and add it to the fields where their feed is grown, so that there's less strontium uptake.
I might be able to say radiation is a latter-day fleaNews reporting is the flea. Stress is the plague bacterium. Low-level radiation is the "bad air" that people wrongly blamed for the disease. People are defending against "bad air" but not killing the rats which carry the fleas.
Recent article in Nature on the radiation: http://www.nature.com/news/fukushima-s-doses-tallied-1.10686
ReplyDeleteQuote from the article cited above:A far greater health risk may come from the psychological stress created by the earthquake, tsunami and nuclear disaster. After Chernobyl, evacuees were more likely to experience post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) than the population as a whole, according to Evelyn Bromet, a psychiatric epidemiologist at the State University of New York, Stony Brook. The risk may be even greater at Fukushima. “I’ve never seen PTSD questionnaires like this,” she says of a survey being conducted by Fukushima Medical University. People are “utterly fearful and deeply angry. There’s nobody that they trust any more for information.”What did I tell you?
ReplyDeleteI quoted the study without comment - those who are motivated can teach themselves.
ReplyDeleteBut when fear and social consensus reach the level that they have, you need to be the listening ear - to do otherwise is to lack empathy. I know that it is tempting to consider the requirement for empathy as a form of stupidity which is worthy of contempt, but to be wasting effort in pointless communication is also pretty silly.
Even if you're right (and on this issue, I'm inclined to agree with you), proving it is often counterproductive. The guarantor for truthful communication being ultimately beneficial is divine providence. But there is no God. Therefore, we need to take care in how we speak. This is not a matter of censorship: rather, I am saying that by acting aggressively in promoting truth: in one context you are being disingenuous. In another, you are simply not being a friend. A friend says enough, and is patient.